That friendly woman seems fairly devastated by this whole aftermath (having created the buttons herself, and having been the first one to start on this project). What you heard described on Saturday night was what we experienced at the time, and it seems a real shame that it has soured so, long after it was done.

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I'm not saying that it didn't start out in an innocent way and progressed in a fairly non-heterosexist fashion. However, theferrett had to have known that his blog had a very wide readership, and that most of those readers would have only his words to go on as far as understanding what occurred. So, IMO, that woman should be most upset at him for his extremely poor choice of words.

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Maybe so. As it is, though, she's having a hard time not taking the sometimes-vicious response to his post as a personal attack. For her, it has clearly ruined the experience.

If I had people throwing around abusive language in order to "teach me" how wrong I was in allowing it in the first place, I think it'd be pretty ruined for me, too. This threadlet is all I can think of, and I'm sorry, no one deserves that.

I'll be spending my day circling the wagons and trying to convince my friend that, no, she really shouldn't stop going to con, and no, she really shouldn't let someone else's opinion ruin her weekend in retrospect.

I look at it in retrospect and think that the mistake was either A) in talking about it afterward, publicly, or B) allowing other people to be involved. If it had remained within the confines of the 10 or so people who knew about it before Con, no one would be talking about pressure and coercion. *shudder*

I really wish you hadn't taken the pin, as I don't think anyone who felt the compulsion to allow people to touch them out of fairness should be put in that position, nor anyone who (and I mean absolutely no offense by this, nor am I trying to exaggerate) feels uncomfortable/peer pressure by the request itself.

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She is very upset with him for his extremely poor choice of words.

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Thanks for posting this. I think you should unlock it because this would be a valuable post for many people to see. Unlike most people expressing their opinions, you were actually there.

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I'd locked it because it seemed that most people (especially those on my FL) were doing so. But I think you make a good point.

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I'm curious as to how one person's post would sour you on the idea, if your experience was pleasant?

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Ferrett here, he'scapable of dealing with his own fallout or whathaveyou. I'm just curious about your reaction.

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I'm curious as to how one person's post would sour you on the idea, if your experience was pleasant?

Because I had had one idea of what the Project may have been, and then I read an account from an insider of what it was from his perspective. His very recollection degraded the Project, because his account is being seen as definitive.

Encountering theferrett's language, his attitude showed through, and it altered my understanding of what this was all about.

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It's fascinating to see how something conceived abstractly and innocently, in terms of an ideal egalitarianism and hedonism, breaks down between theory and practice because of heterosexism and misogyny. It may have been intended and proposed in the most innocent (non-exploitative) frame of mind, but was poisoned because sexism pervades every corner of society, even those corners where we attempt to create a temporary haven or zone of interference.

Also, it sounds like this illustrates quite well a principle i have been struggling to articulate, about how ideas and movements can be born when a few people share a moment of synergetic (and perhaps "numinous") awareness, and then attempt to express that experience to others; and in so doing, seek to find out what it was that characterized that experience so as to force it to become repeatable. Many such moments... simply aren't. But that doesn't stop people from trying to bottle it and peddle it to others anyway.

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Well put.

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Elitism! I wasn't invited to the lingerie party because of my hardware. ;)

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But that doesn't stop people from trying to bottle it and peddle it to others anyway.

Another incredibly spot-on criticism.

(I followed here from a rather delightfully comprehensive post about BoobPrivilege '08 on JournalFen.)

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That - was brilliant.

Now, please tell the rest of the Internets so we can put this all behind us.

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Thank you for making this public.

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Here via coffeeandink, and I also wanted to thank you for posting this.

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As a random stranger who finds this discussion really interesting, I just want to say thanks for posting, it's really good to get a different "insider" perspective (and see that the rules were not always as explicit and universally acknowledged as they have been claimed to have been)

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I do want to stress that the circumstances in which I garnered the pin was very relaxed and body- (and sex-) positive. At the time, I didn't say to myself, "I've been socially pressured to have someone touch me." It is only after the fact that I analyzed this from both an "insider" perspective as well as someone who's been educated in sociology.

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Thank's for making this public. It's very helpful.

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Found your post via a link somewhere on my f-list and wanted to say thanks for posting.

In the circumstances that you took the pin, I might have taken one also. And, like you, I think I would have been rather upset to come home and read theferrett's post.

My reading of the whole situation and the fundamental issue is this: the people who were present and involved or who know theferrett well feel that others are "twisting his words". The truth is, his words were poorly chosen and the tone of his post was creepy and lecherous. Had I read a post like yours describing the same event, I'm fairly certain I would not have had such a violently negative reaction to the whole thing.

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In the circumstances that you took the pin, I might have taken one also. And, like you, I think I would have been rather upset to come home and read theferrett's post.

Same here. Because I would have thought I was participating in a project that had certain guidelines and beliefs behind it. Like an acknowledgment of gendered power. I would *not* enter into a project that is supposed to heal the would of not having unfettered access to women's breasts in highschool. I would be happy to be part of a project where people learned to be not be ashamed of sexual desires. I would be happy to be part of a project where people learned to ask for something, and learned not only how to say no, but how to accept no (which does not include asking a woman 15 times until she gives in).

I have been part of events where I thought I was doing someting in line with my ideals and beliefs, and then later on found out that was not the case. It did ruin my experience of the event.

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Same here. If I had read this post first I would just have thought "oh, wierd stuff that people do after hours at a con with their friends, whatever". And even possibly "might be fun with the right group of people", especially if it was clear that men's bodies were up for grabs too.


If I had been there and participated and then read Ferret's post, however, I would have wanted to track him down and kick his ass. Because really, his post...damn that guy is a creep, and the world does not owe him free boobies to heal the pain of his high school experience.

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Thank you So much for opening this post.

I would have taken a green pin, if I'd been there.Admittedly, I'm in my fifties, but I would have taken a green pin back in my twenties as well. I can say this with great assurance.
:)

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I have a quick question. When they gave you the pin did they ask your age or ask to see ID? And (I'm assuming you're of age) if you had been say a mature looking 13-15 year old would you have felt pressured or skeeved out by it and refused a pin? This whole thing worries me as a mom and a con goer.

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The person did not ask to see my ID. However, I was at a private party where the host personally invited all who attended. It was obvious that the attendees were adults. The people there may be laid back, but I think I can speak for all of them when I say that we would have turned underaged persons away.

Actually, we would have turned all immature persons away, regardless of physical age.

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Thank you for posting your perspective on this.

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